you know, i thought we elected, many of us thought we elected, whether for him or against him, the most gifted orator, the most -- gate who made the most easy connection with people. and yet these last four years have been an effort for him almost to persuade us otherwise. >> well, he's a very unlikely politician. and here's the reason. he's essentially very competitive. he wants to win. he wants to be president and change the world as much as he can. but he's incredibly ambivalent about the political -- the nature of politics. >> it's a necessary evil. >> and that shows up. i mman, that first debate was a classic example of that. i say and in the book you will see, he has more of a writer's sensibility than a politician's sensibility. he is both a participant and an observer of the process. and so as he's participating seeing the surreal aspects of wwat he has to do. that's not -- that might be a good quality in a person. it's not a good quality necessarily in a politiciann3 or a president. bill clinton was incredible at transactional politics. i call him the most brilliant, authentic